Mobile depot anyone ? I use it to make the full use of a wormholer prospect, and yes it's better to just go in Providence space and use a barge, but not everyone can go there, plus a prospect can really fly away and hide, where a venture get combat probed.
And seriously the price of ice in low and null sec is really very profitable for a Endurance, taking into account the price of hull+fitt one hour and maybe a half more of glare crust is enough to pay the entire ship.

It does seem a pity that I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line, but there you have it.

I stopped reading that massive wall of text at that line. Internet Spaceships is a serious business!

The Venture is vital to gas mining (at least with ease) due to it's 2 warp core stabs that are built in. In addition to this, it serves as a point for people to become interested in mining. Without the venture, mining would become a more specialized and isolated profession. The Prospect and Endurance, though I have not tried them, both seem very good at doing their jobs. They may be needlessly specialized for jobs that are already doable with barges, but it serves as an entrance point, like I stated before.

I think it is kind of rude of you to assume that these hypothetical new players will not be substantially smarter and more capable than you.



You made a thread! Good job! I guess that makes you a subject matter expert and not just some guy who has internet access and an active Eve-O subscription!

We read the post. The post was ******* stupid, and we explained, in vivid detail, what was stupid about it.




What numbers would those be? And having spent large swaths of time living in WH space, I'm going to hazard a guess that I (and most everyone else in this thread telling you that you're wrong) have vastly more experience scanning them down than some whiny daytripper who occasionally pulls on his Superman underoos and lets go of Concord's apron strings for an hour or two.

Numbers on what? Why do you think "THE YIELD" is so important? Yield is relative. Generally speaking, giving a ship any substantial yield advantage without extremely significant downsides just makes that ship "the best" and renders every comparable ship obsolete.

Mining barges/exhumers used to be structured this way, and it was pretty much, "If you're mining, you're doing it in a hulk, or you're stupid and wrong."

So, they tiericided barges, and now there are 6 very usable ones. You can fly a hulk for maximum yield, but you're going to pay for it with paper thin tank and mediocre cargohold. You can fly a Skiff and have a battleship grade-tank, and it will cost you a bit of yield.

Additionally, the abilities of the procurer do, in fact, add up to more yield, in practice. More cargo means less downtime spent unloading cargo. More survivability means more time spent huffing without having to flee.


As an aside, for a guy crying about THE NUMBERS so much, you suggested earlier that a catalyst is a better fleet huffer - did you actually run the numbers on that?

Here comes the clue train, last stop is you:

The venture gets a 100% bonus to yield AND a 25% reduction in gas cloud harvester cycle time, for a grand total of 5.33 effective harvesters, resulting in a no-booster, no-implant maximum yield of 2.67 m3 per second.

The 5-harvester Catalyst you've never actually tried to fit gets 2.5 m3 per second and, with ONLY the gas cloud harvesters fit, is at 157.3% of its maximum CPU. Even with 3 co-processors and 2 overclocks, it is more than 3% over.

I'd be surprised if you can actually make it fit at a pricepoint lower than a Prospect, nevermind a venture.

By the way, since shoehorning it together leaves no room for any kind of tank, your catalyst is left with a paltry 3900 EHP.

The venture can be fit quite easily with a cold tank of over 7K, aligns faster, has that built in +2 scram strength, lower signature, more cargo...

It is objectively better in every way.

That's the first sane thing you've said.



Training up mining frigate? With mining


In fact only when you've completed level 4 of mining frigate are you now FINALLY on par with a catalyst yield for fleet ops. now your training for 10+ days. You've now FINALLY surpassed the catalyst in yield. By I think it's 3-6% like you said. and then we gotta upgrade this ship we want a better ship of course we wanna move forward. oh and by the way you gotta read my post.

you gotta read all of it. cause i dont really have too much beef with the venture but moving forward.

Cool, show us the fit. You can do it with GCH Is, but now you're down to a sad little 1.67 m3 per second.

T2s? Doesn't look like it's happening without exotic co-processors (all of which cost more than a prospect hull by itself) or a CPU implant.

You didn't watch the video I posted earlier, did you?

Or did you not understand what you were looking at?

Or do you not have even the faintest clue what a reduced Signature Radius does for you?

Take a minute to read Feyd's wonderful Daredevil Of Sexytimes article, wherein Harkonnen the Younger introduces us to miracle that is Sig Tanking.

The Prospect starts with a 40m Sig Radius, which will drop to 30m at Expedition Frigate V (no links, boosters or implants).

A 30m Sig radius?

30m?

To give you a comparison: Warrior II light drones have a 25m Sig Radius and when flying my drugged up (~ISK20m/hour for Strong X-Instinct), linked, billion ISK Halo pod Dramiel I manage a teensy 16m, which is as small as you can get without having a Leviathan in fleet and in-system with you.

Seriously, that little bonus is far, far more powerful than you appear to give it credit for.



If you don't recognise the HUGE benefits of having that CovOps cloak, then the Prospect is definitely not the ship for you.



Note that the Endurance cannot fit a CovOps cloak, only a regular one for which it receives a few bonuses. It cannot warp while cloaked, light a Covert Cyno or take a Black Ops jump bridge, things the Prospect CAN do.

Wait, I've got something for this.








I was lead to believe that you had already crunched the numbers, friend. I am disheartened to learn you have been remiss in this matter.

Apparently you do, because left to your own devices, you've put 350 CPU worth of modules onto a ship with 222.5 CPU (at max skills).

Said "really good gas site" is probably worth >ISK100m/Prospect Load.

That's better ISK/hr than Incursions for a lot less training time (you seen how long the train for large turrets V is?)



Mobile Depots are a *thing* you know? They don't take that long to setup.

Sure, it'd be *nice* to have that extra high slot and I wouldn't object to it happening, but I'm not going to write off the entire vessel for that one perceived 'lack'.



I never said the regular cloak was 'junk' or that the Endurance's bonuses for cloaks were useless, please don't put words in my mouth like that.



Well, I'd sure find it handy to be able to warp off my cloud at the first sign of Scan Probes in space and go invisible. Or just burn off the cloud a little and cloak up, ready to sneaky warp away if something lands at the site.

And you're ignoring the Cov Cyno and BLOPS Bridgeable capabilities of the Prospect. I know some drug manufacturers that routinely bridge fleets of Prospects around.

there are other ships out there like the NAGA that can fit 5 harvesters with no cpu issues.

No purpose?

Ha

Hahahahahahaha

heh. Sorry about that. Ninja mining wormhole gas clouds with a few t2 mining frigs is both extremely profitable and lots of fun.

The sheer speed and covops cloak capability make these puppies awesome in this role, plus relatively speaking, they are so cheap, one successful op is usually enough to pay off the cost of the ship.

Doesn't it have the ability to fit a covops cloak?

guys, pardon the OP his mind and POV is revolving around mining yield only.


@OP, T2 ships are specialized. specialization is not necessarily an upgrade.

i know it's kinda hard to wrap your head around that difficult concept but please try abit more to understand it, ok?

There is an upgrade to yield in comparison to the venture.

No one mines for best isk/hr income...except maybe newbs. If your mining its because you enjoy it or you just dont know any better. Mining, like PI and similar professions doesnt compete with blowing stuff up in ISK an hour.

People still do them, mostly because they enjoy the activity not the isk. Mining frigates give them more options and ways to make big rocks into little rocks, make snow cones, and huff gas. The reason you dont see them is because everyone that is using one doesnt want to be seen and thats sort of the purpose.

You can put a cloak on it, you won't be able to do anything but you can still do it.

I got a little further than that. The point where I stopped reading was when I was wondering whether the op had heard of mobile depots before. How long have they been in the game now?

I just threw this together in eft

[Prospect, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

Gas Cloud Harvester II
Gas Cloud Harvester II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Still room to upgrade that micro to an enduring or a t2, even with dual medium asb, enough to tank surprise sleepers, with a velocity of 3.8km/s, giving you a good chance to burn out of range of other surprise attackers, and of course, the covops cloak and a warp speed of 8.4. I don't even mine, or do wh, and was just trying to think of what might provide the best chance for survival for one gas mining in wh. I don't know how good this is but a w.hole gas miner could probably comment.

The fact that I can fit dual MASB on a small ship without gimping AND have the MWD is pretty incredible though, and yield is 160 with all lvl 5 skills. Definitely fits the bill of a specialised gas mining ship in my book.

It is, actually, it's intended in the game design. T2 = specialisation. T2 =/= upgrade. You've had this explained to you multiple times by multiple people, and your further denial of this simple fact of the game is your own failure.

no rule is needed, only common sense, and this is common knowledge so you really can't argue about this.

you can even see it in ISIS in-game, tech 2s are specializations and the closest that can be considered an upgrade is the next "bigger" hull. in this case from a venture, a mining frigate to a procurer, a mining barge.

so the progression would be for mining vessels is frigate -> barge. while in pvp ships, from smallest to biggest: frigate -> destroyers -> cruisers -> battlecruisers -> battleship -> dreadnought/carrier -> titan/supercarrier.

you are not ruining anybody's day here let alone life, lol, don't be conceited. we are just concerned for the other newbros who might read this thread and get the wrong ideas as well.

im not gonna comment on what the prospect's "inadequacies" are, i don't even know how to mine ice and why you require those capabilites in a small frigate. im just here to comment about your wrong views on ship progressions.

Why? Justify this need in the game, and how it improves the game without negating the risk inherent in the tasks the Prospect was designed and specialised for. You can't just say, "we need x", you need to qualify it: "we need x because..."

If it's just because you think it's needed, then that's not good enough. You don't need a probe launcher on a prospect, because if you can fly a prospect, you can probably fly a covops or its t1 counterpart. Yes, reshipping is a thing you have to do, ESPECIALLY when you're in a ship specialised for gas mining and you want to probe down a wormhole or the gas site itself. That requires reshipping, just like being in a Taranis, and encountering a wartarget in an Enyo, probably requires reshipping. There is no such thing as a ship that can do everything, and there never should be. You need to clue yourself into an understanding of this, or justify why you think a new ship or a new high slot is required. Because so far, you've done neither.

I do agree that if you have to refit to use a ship in its primary role then there is a design problem ...
Either
- transform a turret into a high utility while doubling the efficiency of the remaining turret;
- or change the covops trait into a scanning trait ;
- or delete the prospect and give a gaz bonus to the endurance...

The Prospect has pathetic sensor strength for a T2 ship. This probably comes naturally from the Venture having one of the worst sensor strengths in the entire game.
Also, sensor strength has nothing to do with your ability to scan (only with your ability to be scanned).

Then there's no problem, now is there?